The Scottish Boinc Team

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:57 pm**

I didn't realize they used credit screw ... my guess as to where we would finish in the standings is probably very optimistic then!

@Pete - when you get BoincTasks tied in the 1st time you obviously won't see anything under the Projects or Tasks tabs. However if you look at MESSAGES you should see the startup info from BOINC. When you hit the Run CPU Benchmarks you will see it start in the messages and it then will give you the results from the benchmarks.

NOTE: On one system I installed the "latest" version of BoincTasks and it seems to me that the Run CPU Benchmarks didn't actually work. I reverted to an older version and when I hit run cpu benchmarks things happened as they should. BOINC absolutely, positively will not attach and get work until the benchmarks have been run.

I'm also running 12 hours WU and plan on switching to shorter ones once I dump what is finished. I haven't decided what length I'll go to yet.

I'll sure be happy when we get past the bunker stage and start actually seeing some results. There are 366k WU in the wild so I'm guessing there is more than a little bunkering happening.

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:01 pm**

Bryan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:57 pmI didn't realize they used credit screw ... my guess as to where we would finish in the standings is probably very optimistic then!

Rosetta grants credit based on the average claimed credit per decoy from all jobs submitted to date. So if you're the first to report, then you might get granted too much credit, but it will quickly get diluted by the reasonable credit claims from ever other machine that submitted results before yours did. Credit is low, seti low.
If, as I understand it, credit is an average, then I think that the bottom line is everyone gets the same credit per decoy, the difference being how fast you can complete a decoy.

Bryan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:57 pmI'm also running 12 hours WU and plan on switching to shorter ones once I dump what is finished. I haven't decided what length I'll go to yet.

Again the problem is this per decoy, makes it hard to gauge which is the best units to run. Some WUs run longer than they should, because sometimes a single decoy simply takes longer than your preferred time (you must return at least one decoy for a WU to be accepted). Rosetta gives your credits per decoy, not runtime.
it's luck of the draw with tasks to some extent, because some tasks produce very few decoys whereas others will produce many, and credit is assigned per decoy.

Unlike other projects, changing the run time preference in your account will also change the run time of the units already downloaded.

As far as I can tell, there's also the issue of the watchdog, which shuts a unit down if it hangs etc. Problem is that it does this after 4 hours past your run length, so a 12 hour hung unit will be shutdown after 16 hours and will gain 20 credits for running. Keep an eye on the cpu usage on boinc tasks.

Good chance we may grab 96 place before the comp starts.

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:41 pm**

Any more thoughts between win vs linux or 32 bit vs 64 bit?

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:01 am**

@Alez, it will be interesting to see the bunker dumps. I ran for 24 hours at 0 resource share before I started to bunker and got 577k for that day. That isn't "Seti" like. Of course I don't do Seti but IIRC it pays something like 25 credits/hr

If it is a function of who finds a decoy 1st maybe the secret is to have no cache.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:48 am**

WTF is a decoy? And more relevantly why TF?
Having started to pay attention again after a long period of crunching blind my impression is that Rosetta pays much better than it used to, and certainly much better than WCG or the other CPU projects I run.
And yes, the second Threadripper has been delivered and is running. Its a 1950X 16 core. It will run 24/7. Most of it's Rosetta work has yet to be returned but so far I have 351 completed WU on it netting 22.7K of Rosetta credit. That's 65/wu. Most of the WU take less than 2 hrs. So I might expect, decoy jiggery-pokery aside, to get about c.25K per day from this machine.
In 25 hrs we shall find out.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:02 am**

Bryan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:01 am @Alez, it will be interesting to see the bunker dumps. I ran for 24 hours at 0 resource share before I started to bunker and got 577k for that day. That isn't "Seti" like. Of course I don't do Seti but IIRC it pays something like 25 credits/hr

If it is a function of who finds a decoy 1st maybe the secret is to have no cache.

We will see in about 24 hrs

, but roughly 25/hr for me before closing my systems. I very much doubt I will be generating 577K/day. Still if that's the case we will be in awesome shape.

Rosetta is quorum of 1 so it's not who finds a decoy first, it's how long it takes you to find a decoy on the unit.

[mention]Megacruncher[/mention] what setting do you have on your account for run time ? Mine was 12 hrs and now 8 hrs. Should I be setting less ?

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:21 am**

Alez wrote:
@Megacruncher what setting do you have on your account for run time ? Mine was 12 hrs and now 8 hrs. Should I be setting less ?

It's set at 2 hrs. I don't recall ever setting it at that or understanding why I might want to change it.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:26 am**

[mention]Megacruncher[/mention] I think the current default is 8 hrs on the project. Going to back mine off as the comp progresses down to 2 hrs so that the boinc manager doesn't loose it's mind by backing off too quick.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:06 am**

Megacruncher wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:21 amIt's set at 2 hrs. I don't recall ever setting it at that or understanding why I might want to change it.

For one, it pays a little better credit per run sec on the longer WUs. The main reason though, if I recall, this the project has a limit to the number of WUs it will issue per day to a system. For most systems you won't reach that limit but the 56, 64, 72 thread systems some us run can reach that limit running 1-2 hr WUs. Your 1950X system could be affected too. Also, when loading a 5-6 day bunker it takes fewer WUs to load that bunker and it's easy to calculate a 1 WU per day per thread bunker.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:48 am**

scole of TSBT wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:06 am it's easy to calculate a 1 WU per day per thread bunker.

Well I'm mister smarty pants ... I took higher level math in college so I was able to figure out how many I needed at 2 WU/thread/day

Now I'm really anxious to see our bunker drop. Either we are going to be ecstatic and move up the standings quickly or we are going to be sorely disappointed! I'm hoping we get to do our "happy dance"

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:17 am**

Bryan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:48 amWell I'm mister smarty pants ... I took higher level math in college so I was able to figure out how many I needed at 2 WU/thread/day

I did maths at university and the best I can do is drop the units then suck it and see.... what does that say about Boinc credit ?

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:05 pm**

10 hours until the kick off. Looks like we are just shy of taking 96th before the start. I expect that after the bunker drops we should hit low 90's. Here's hoping. Going to be very intresting to see how much we have all generated.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:26 pm**

Even with "Seti" level credits I think we will be in the 80s. Scole has a full bunker!

I should say that I'm going to be very very disappointed if we don't get to that level after we drop. But you can never count on BOINC credits giving you what you rightfully deserve

We are special you know!

No GC ... yet.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:37 pm**

Current state of play after last update, prior to kick off.
5 hours until the [mention]scole of TSBT[/mention] carpet bomb run commences.

Rosetta@Home position

Position	Team	Points
88	NDTC Rosetta	49,588,779
89	Team-SciFi	48,649,805
90	California State Universities (CSU)	48,539,167
91	www.Au-Ja.de	48,108,291
92	IBM	47,771,887
93	Israel	47,274,770
94	The Final Front Ear	47,148,547
95	BOINC@Finland	46,971,804
96	Picard	46,587,070
97	The Scottish Boinc Team	46,530,255
98	ALS-tutkimuksen tuki ry	45,483,181

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:37 pm**

Alez wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:37 pm Current state of play after last update, prior to kick off.
5 hours until the @scole of TSBT carpet bomb run commences.

Rosetta@Home position
Position Team Points

88 NDTC Rosetta 49,588,779

89 Team-SciFi 48,649,805

90 California State Universities (CSU) 48,539,167

91 www.Au-Ja.de 48,108,291

92 IBM 47,771,887

93 Israel 47,274,770

94 The Final Front Ear 47,148,547

95 BOINC@Finland 46,971,804

96 Picard 46,587,070

97 The Scottish Boinc Team 46,530,255

98 ALS-tutkimuksen tuki ry 45,483,181

Sheesh, who decided on a 2am kickoff?

Nice table again but it's now out of date!
As of now:
TSBT have 46,623,940
Picard have 46,600,423
For those without the benefit of a maths degree, our number is bigger than theirs which means that we have moved up to 96th!

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:42 pm**

Megacruncher wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:37 pm
For those without the benefit of a maths degree, our number is bigger than theirs which means that we have moved up to 96th!

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:35 am**

Megacruncher wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:37 pm
Sheesh, who decided on a 2am kickoff?

Nice table again but it's now out of date!
As of now:
TSBT have 46,623,940
Picard have 46,600,423
For those without the benefit of a maths degree, our number is bigger than theirs which means that we have moved up to 96th!

Jeez, everyones a critic

Sadly I don't have a maths degree, only an engineering one, so fully qualified to hit things with a selection of hammers

I would bother my arse to update the table but I suspect it's going to change radically in about 90 mins

Still, very happy my prediction of 96th before kickoff is valid.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:18 am**

McShane of AP wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:13 am
Alez wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:35 am
Megacruncher wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:37 pm
Sheesh, who decided on a 2am kickoff?

Au contrare, it is an excellent start time. It will only be 11AM here.
At least someone appreciates my sleeping for 4 to 5 hours at the most

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 am**

I do believe we are off and running. Bombs away gentlemen.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:43 am**

It's going to take quite a while to upload!

We ought to get a picture, the top 5 users are TSBT!!

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:52 am**

Bryan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:43 am It's going to take quite a while to upload!

painfully slow

Bryan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:43 am We ought to get a picture, the top 5 users are TSBT!!

This ?

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:01 am**

And we have an enormous lead over everybody else: 1.3 Million vs 21K !
Very encouraging start but it'll be a while before a reliable picture emerges.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:20 am**

From what I've seen so far it appears that Alez was correct ... Seti like credits. CRAP!

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:25 am**

2 Million on last update. That should put us up to at least 89th now.

Suberb effort by everyone involved.
My credits so far for a 6 day bunker are ...poor....what I actually think is not fit for a family friendly forum. :text-imsorry:

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:43 am**

Bryan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:20 am From what I've seen so far it appears that Alez was correct ... Seti like credits. CRAP!

Indeed, I did warn you, but makes our massive move up the world rankings in just over 1 week all the more to celebrate.

A great team effort.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:55 am**

Don't forget you can follow the team HERE

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:03 am**

To date our best ever position was 92 at 2011-03-20. We've smashed that.
2.7 million v's 100k after 2 hours. Next update should put us at 88th at least.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:15 am**

I'm done - all in. We are in 88th but that will improve when Scole gets around to dumping the rest of his bunker

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:55 am**

I'm all in too. Took nearly 3 hours to dump all the units. I had hoped for a bit more credit for that effort.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:15 am**

That's all I have. Based on daily output before the challenge I thought it would be more.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:17 pm**

I suppose the one good thing about the poor credit is that everyone is in the same boat. We've built a big buffer in both the competition and the top 100 standings.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:34 pm**

87th at the last count. Which in itself (and further gains are certain) means that once the comp is done Rosetta will be safe for many many months, even if we just leave it to the long-tern project stalwarts.
We shouldn't count our chickens but at present the comp is looking like a one horse race.
As regards the credits, they look all-right to Rip Van Winkle here. The 1950X had managed to get 22.7 KCr from 351 2hr WU before I started bunkering (64.6/WU). The 1061 bunkered 2hr WUs on the same machine delivered 67.5 KCr which is 63.6/WU not a significant drop.
Anyway it's going to be WCG for me after we're done here so I'll enjoy the relative bounty of Rosetta while I can.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:16 pm**

The credits are what the credits are but the bunker was a major disappointment. In 48 hours prior to the start I did over 1M using 75% of my threads. In the 6 1/2 days I bunkered at 100% I only did 1.7M. I really hate it when Alez is right

Oh well, we will definitely move up in the standings and as you say it will last a long time!

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:33 pm**

Bryan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:16 pm I really hate it when Alez is right

Bwahahahahahahaaa

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:21 am**

Stats seem all screwed up on Bam at the moment for us on Rosetta but at least the main position is correct. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are in 87th place.

Well done all.

We hold the top 5 positions, although that will change as tguskill of TSC! Russia is cracking in the credit and will catch both Mega and myself and probabily Pete to.
7 of us in the top 100 so far.

Rosetta@Home

Rosetta@Home position

Position	Team	Points
83	France	52,977,001
84	Portugal@Home	52,384,389
85	Romania@StiintaAzi.ro	51,150,647
86	Catalunya	51,012,822
87	The Scottish Boinc Team	50,496,147
88	BOINC@MIXI	50,178,704

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:11 pm**

86th

85th coming up

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:07 pm**

Posted: **Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:18 pm**

Bryan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:07 pm 85th

Great effort guys. Bam still has us at 87th, looks like it only updates once per day from rosetta.
Might be another place or two in this yet.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:50 am**

81st by the end of the challenge I reckon!

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:50 am**

Rosetta@Home

Rosetta@Home position

Position	Team	Points
81	RENCI	53,919,201
82	Orb-3	53,709,738
83	France	53,018,777
84	Portugal@Home	52,439,799
85	The Scottish Boinc Team	51,270,374
86	Romania@StiintaAzi.roI	51,154,620

Megacruncher wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:50 am 81st by the end of the challenge I reckon!

3 more million in the next 5 days, there's the challenge guys as TSC! Russia, by all their best efforts, are not going to catch us.

tguskill will catch me and probabily Pete to take 3rd, but we have this in the bag.That's me maxed out short of resurrecting old core duo systems, think I might have to look into this whole threadripper milarkay or pay through the nose for next gen xeons.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:41 pm**

CREDIT ISSUE SOLVED - MAYBE

I think I've solved the really low credit problem

As much as I hate to say it again, Alez was correct:

Rosetta grants credit based on the average claimed credit per decoy from all jobs submitted to date. So if you're the first to report, then you might get granted too much credit, but it will quickly get diluted by the reasonable credit claims from ever other machine that submitted results before yours did. Credit is low, seti low.

But to return the world to proper balance I'll add that that was a half assed answer

At least not the whole story!

It has been bugging me why I had 48 hours of much better credits before I started my bunker (1M in 48 hours using 75% of my threads). This morning I started new instances and put my resource share at 0 and the run time at 1 hour WU. Yeah baby, my credits for 1 hour WU ranged from 25/hr to 150/hr. I have been running a steady 10-11k/hour since we did our bunker dumps. For the past 3 hours I'm at 17k/hour and that may get better.

The solution is to kill your big honking cache and pull work in very small amounts -or- as needed. I think what happens is the project issues new types of WU and as Alez said it doesn't know anything about them. So if you latch onto the new types of WU they will pay really good credits until the project comes up with a good average. In the meantime you get paid well. If you have a big cache then by the time you get around to crunching them the project has actually figured out what they are worth.

I'm experimenting with the run time - 1 hr vs 2. Before I started my bunker I was running 2 hour WU with zero resource share.

NOTE: since these are new instances it is possible that credit screw is involved also but it appears to be based on WU type and not across all WUs.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:15 pm**

Short answer:
Set your network cache low, like .01 days work and/or resource share to 0 (as long as you aren't running any other project at the same time) and set the WU run times to 1 or 2 hours?

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:43 pm**

Yes sir ... I stil don't have a feel for which is better 1 or 2 hours. But either run a VERY small cache or no cache. I've set mine to zero resource share.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:02 pm**

Who was the meathead that suggested it was better to run longer WUs?

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:25 pm**

scole of TSBT wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:02 pm Who was the meathead that suggested it was better to run longer WUs?

I'm not sure Steve

But anyone who schedules a 7 day challenge with an 8 day bunker is definitely into loooonnnnggg so we should blame it on that person. Alez comes to mind

Are you seeing an improvement also? Like Alez pointed out it is a crapshoot ... if you get a bunch of the new ones you get high credits. If not there is nothing lost.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:57 pm**

Hard to tell but it's certainly not worse.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 am**

I'm not feeling the love here. Seems my name is poping up a lot .... I'm running 2 hr units and have done so since the bunker drop on the basis that I will get 1 decoy quickly and then move on. Going to set a no cache regime for the last of the comp.
Further more, don't blame me because you all didn't listen to me

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:26 am**

At least I'm feeling the love from my pup

If we crack on at this credit level we may even hit 80th place by the end.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:06 am**

Alez wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 amI'm not feeling the love here. Seems my name is poping up a lot ....

fugetaboutit. We went to a lot of trouble to get you recognized as team founder by BoincStats just so you could issue this challenge. We're not not going to kick you off the team now.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:55 am**

Alez wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 am
Further more, don't blame me because you all didn't listen to me

Believe it or not, I'm pretty sure that I've been told that before

Looking at the stats it appears we were dead even with TSC! today so I think they will have their hands full trying to catch us. I love it when a plan comes together.

I think Alez was dead on saying that it is a just luck of the draw. My credits have slowed down. Looking at the machines I'm not getting as many of the high paying type WU right now.

The Scottish Boinc Team

16/10-23/10 Who Will Win The Rosetta Rosette ? Rosetta@home

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