Should TSBT participate in BU
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Welcome to The Scottish Boinc Team boards. See forum rules in pinned post. If you can't be bothered then try not to be too naughty as I have a delete button to press and a ban hammer to swing.
#1 Should TSBT participate in BU
As per the title. What do members think. Some guys have been very quiet on the forum recently and there is a worry that BU could end up splitting the team. So, what's your personal opinion on wether the team should participate or should BU be spun off to a separate team so that TSBT isn't tainted by participation.
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- Janos (retired)
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#2 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
I think a team wide decree to not crunch a project would contradict what this team is about.
"Happiness can be defined as: a geek with non-work related code to write, no distractions and no deadline." - Janos
- Megacruncher
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#3 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
Bitcoin Utopia is tricky.
I've always taken the line that I'd crunch anything with big credits being a welcome bonus.
The credits for BU are so vast that it gave me pause for thought, as did the fact that the admins were creaming off some of the Bitcoins - was this right and would it last or would it be banned? The first question remains a matter of opinion but it's certainly lasted (it's not going to be banned anytime in the foreseeable future) and been taken up by all of the BOINC teams with a serious competitive streak.
I think it's part of BOINC so we should crunch it.
But if any of the team would rather we did this in the privacy of a separate team then it would be easy enough to do. A BU free TSBT would have 12.5 billion credits and would still be 41st or so in the world. Obviously any of the BU crunchers would continue to crunch for TSBT for all the other projects.
Of course it could be that their is no need for this debate & there is no disapproval other than the projected guilt of those of us who have accumulated countless billions of easy credits!
Whatever, this is an important discussion so let us know what you think.
I've always taken the line that I'd crunch anything with big credits being a welcome bonus.
The credits for BU are so vast that it gave me pause for thought, as did the fact that the admins were creaming off some of the Bitcoins - was this right and would it last or would it be banned? The first question remains a matter of opinion but it's certainly lasted (it's not going to be banned anytime in the foreseeable future) and been taken up by all of the BOINC teams with a serious competitive streak.
I think it's part of BOINC so we should crunch it.
But if any of the team would rather we did this in the privacy of a separate team then it would be easy enough to do. A BU free TSBT would have 12.5 billion credits and would still be 41st or so in the world. Obviously any of the BU crunchers would continue to crunch for TSBT for all the other projects.
Of course it could be that their is no need for this debate & there is no disapproval other than the projected guilt of those of us who have accumulated countless billions of easy credits!
Whatever, this is an important discussion so let us know what you think.
Willie the Megacruncher
#4 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
As a newcomer to the team it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of the folk that have been playing this game far longer than me.
I don't think there is an easy answer to the BU question, in fact I'm not sure there is a correct answer to the question.
Personally I suppose I'm in this for: the fun, challenge, competitions, and to do my bit for "science"
If I really wanted to make a big difference It would probably be better donating money to whatever research/science that I'm interested in but that's only part - I feel - of what boinc/number crunching is all about.
It sounds like BU is a very similar argument to that which happened at the start of GPU use, and as has been mentioned elsewhere, I'm not sure that argument is sorted out to everyone's satisfaction.
As in life I don't think it's possible to keep everyone happy, and I suppose we just need to try not to upset too many people where possible however progress is part of life and things move on and change.
If BU goes to a vote does that mean that there will have to be a vote on every new project in case it upsets someone and to make sure it's deemed worthy of our time. Surely that's why we select which projects to run and aren't forced to sign up and just press a crunch button?
Anyway apologies for the long rambling post!
In short as long as BU is available I believe we should crunch it if we want to.
Paul
I don't think there is an easy answer to the BU question, in fact I'm not sure there is a correct answer to the question.
Personally I suppose I'm in this for: the fun, challenge, competitions, and to do my bit for "science"
If I really wanted to make a big difference It would probably be better donating money to whatever research/science that I'm interested in but that's only part - I feel - of what boinc/number crunching is all about.
It sounds like BU is a very similar argument to that which happened at the start of GPU use, and as has been mentioned elsewhere, I'm not sure that argument is sorted out to everyone's satisfaction.
As in life I don't think it's possible to keep everyone happy, and I suppose we just need to try not to upset too many people where possible however progress is part of life and things move on and change.
If BU goes to a vote does that mean that there will have to be a vote on every new project in case it upsets someone and to make sure it's deemed worthy of our time. Surely that's why we select which projects to run and aren't forced to sign up and just press a crunch button?
Anyway apologies for the long rambling post!
In short as long as BU is available I believe we should crunch it if we want to.
Paul
- Buster Gunn
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#5 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
I also say "crunch it if we want to". There have been numerous controversial projects over the years because of excessive credits (MilkyWay comes to mind) but they usually work there way back to being in-line. BU has recently backed-off somewhat and will probably do so again after more complaints. As long as the user gets "paid for the amount of work done"
I'm happy. Heck, I can probably name 10 or so projects that pay to little. Ufluids and Sztaki come to mind. Even
WCG could be more generous. We don't see complaints about those projects.
I would really like to hear from the newbies. They are the future.
I'm happy. Heck, I can probably name 10 or so projects that pay to little. Ufluids and Sztaki come to mind. Even
WCG could be more generous. We don't see complaints about those projects.
I would really like to hear from the newbies. They are the future.
Buster is my dog. Sadly, Buster is gone.
Buster is the Malamute, Obi is the Golden.
Obi is the dog of the house now.
Buster is the Malamute, Obi is the Golden.
Obi is the dog of the house now.
- scole of TSBT
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#6 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
Not sure where I fit in the old vs. new, but I feel the same way as Megacruncher.
I got interested in BU quickly because I had researched crypto currency mining not long ago and considered giving it a try, BU happened to get popular at the same time and being an IT person, working with the ASICs, as with GPUs, was something new and interesting. I do enjoy the competitive aspect of crunching, but my participation in BU has been more about moving TSBT up the team stats list, not mine. I just got caught up in trying to keep TSBT moving up the board.
I actually considered setting up some process to crunch BU for other team members under they’re own BU account where they would earn the credit, in return for direct donations to projects. That’s a double win. BU donates to a project and you can donate to a project too. I’m still open to do that and will put that put offer on the table. Just wasn’t sure how to structure it.
I understand the criticism of BU not being purely scientific, but they are helping fund scientific non-profit projects. They have raised over $8,000 US for several projects including Milkyway @home and BOINCStats. As for being for-profit and taking a fee, I think they've grossed less than $1,200 so far, not that much. They deserve to have their operating expense covered.
{edited and removed comment about BU making a mistake in how they calculated credit. I double checked the math and it is in line with credit new guidelines. Figures I posted about here on TSBT about ASIC performance weren't correct and will fix that. Won't bore everyone with the math unless they want to see it. If so, I post the details.}
In short, I think those of us who decided to crunch BU understands if others don’t want to crunch it. Nobody crunches every project. Not at the same time anyway. We all have our own interests. Some of us just felt maybe others were losing interest in being part of TSBT or getting turned off because of the way we went after BU and defended it. I shared that concern with some of the others. I think we’re more interested making sure TSBT and the TSBT forum are a place were everyone feels welcome and willing to participate. I’ll go along with Alez and Megacruncher and move BU to another team if enough members feel BU shouldn’t be part of TSBT project list.
I’m not sure if I’ve mentioned before, but I have the most fun with the team challenges. I often put out a call for more TSBT members. Not all projects appear interesting, but I find the challenges a good opportunity to learn about other projects, give them a push and maybe earn a new project badge along the way. Anyway, as with BU, don’t take rally cries as anything more than what they are, just a good ‘ole rebel yell.
I’m interested in what others have to say also.
I got interested in BU quickly because I had researched crypto currency mining not long ago and considered giving it a try, BU happened to get popular at the same time and being an IT person, working with the ASICs, as with GPUs, was something new and interesting. I do enjoy the competitive aspect of crunching, but my participation in BU has been more about moving TSBT up the team stats list, not mine. I just got caught up in trying to keep TSBT moving up the board.
I actually considered setting up some process to crunch BU for other team members under they’re own BU account where they would earn the credit, in return for direct donations to projects. That’s a double win. BU donates to a project and you can donate to a project too. I’m still open to do that and will put that put offer on the table. Just wasn’t sure how to structure it.
I understand the criticism of BU not being purely scientific, but they are helping fund scientific non-profit projects. They have raised over $8,000 US for several projects including Milkyway @home and BOINCStats. As for being for-profit and taking a fee, I think they've grossed less than $1,200 so far, not that much. They deserve to have their operating expense covered.
{edited and removed comment about BU making a mistake in how they calculated credit. I double checked the math and it is in line with credit new guidelines. Figures I posted about here on TSBT about ASIC performance weren't correct and will fix that. Won't bore everyone with the math unless they want to see it. If so, I post the details.}
In short, I think those of us who decided to crunch BU understands if others don’t want to crunch it. Nobody crunches every project. Not at the same time anyway. We all have our own interests. Some of us just felt maybe others were losing interest in being part of TSBT or getting turned off because of the way we went after BU and defended it. I shared that concern with some of the others. I think we’re more interested making sure TSBT and the TSBT forum are a place were everyone feels welcome and willing to participate. I’ll go along with Alez and Megacruncher and move BU to another team if enough members feel BU shouldn’t be part of TSBT project list.
I’m not sure if I’ve mentioned before, but I have the most fun with the team challenges. I often put out a call for more TSBT members. Not all projects appear interesting, but I find the challenges a good opportunity to learn about other projects, give them a push and maybe earn a new project badge along the way. Anyway, as with BU, don’t take rally cries as anything more than what they are, just a good ‘ole rebel yell.
I’m interested in what others have to say also.
- scole of TSBT
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#7 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
I'm pretty sure I know 4 others that voted Yes we should crunch BU, so that really leaves it 2-2 outside those of us who are currently crunching it. I hope others weigh in. In the mean time, I'm going to join Alez and move BU to the Anguillan Pirates while we wait for more input.
- robmacagain
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#8 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
Yes we should keep it in as other groups are banging away at it and so should we.
That is if i can get it working again , lost my config files as i was trying to convert my system to GPT but failed miserably and windows backup is a load of old shite to put it mildly .
That is if i can get it working again , lost my config files as i was trying to convert my system to GPT but failed miserably and windows backup is a load of old shite to put it mildly .
#9 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
I think you should run it unless Henri creates a project to provide free mince pies to anyone who joins UBT. :)
#10 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
So far, I guess knocking out the 5 of us that run it, BU is a 50 - 50 split. Would be nice to hear some more opinions one way or another.
I do note that more teams are running it and a few of the older teams are falling by the wayside. Maybe it's a good thing that new teams are taking up the challenge and running all projects available rather than sticking to the same projects as have been run for years. Maybe Boinc will be more dynamic as a result ?
I do note that more teams are running it and a few of the older teams are falling by the wayside. Maybe it's a good thing that new teams are taking up the challenge and running all projects available rather than sticking to the same projects as have been run for years. Maybe Boinc will be more dynamic as a result ?
The best form of help from above is a sniper on the rooftop....
- scole of TSBT
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#11 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
Janos, I know you're not in favor of crunching BU, but does that extend to feeling it shouldn't be a TSBT project? Wasn't quite sure how to take your post. I'm kind of thick that way sometimes. We're all friends here and we respect your opinion. I've been quick to respond in defense if BU on some of your posts about it, but I hope it's just been taken as input for debate. We miss you around the water cooler. :)
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#12 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
Well having returned after a few years absense I've pretty much attached all the new projects available including BU and view it as a personal choice as to whether you chosse to crunch it or not and not a great reason to split the team. Although I understand why some view it as a dubious project.
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- Megacruncher
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#13 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
Hi David,
Good to hear from you. Nearly 8 years from joining to first post.
Now that is impressive! 8)
Anyway, it does look like their is a clear crunch & let crunch majority within the team so I think we should keep everything as it is.
Good to hear from you. Nearly 8 years from joining to first post.
Now that is impressive! 8)
Anyway, it does look like their is a clear crunch & let crunch majority within the team so I think we should keep everything as it is.
Willie the Megacruncher
#14 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
hmm I voted No then attached, that's me I suppose but it's all gone a bit, Bit Coin http://boincstats.com/en/stats/-1/team/ ... 657/charts
#15 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
Might as well get yourself an ASIC and truly join the ' dark side '
The best form of help from above is a sniper on the rooftop....
#16 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
I have looked at them...
#17 Re: Should TSBT participate in BU
For what my opinion is worth as basically a non-contributer, I vote the Team participates in everything (as was always the custom) and members can opt in and out of projects at will.